2008 USNEWS MBA Ranking (Rumor)

[mmjj]

Just saw it in the BW forum.
Not sure about if it's the final ranking.
But according to a earlier thread in the forum, USC will be ranked 21st. Maybe this ranking is true.



US News MBA Ranking (2008 Edition)

1. HBS
2. Stanford
3. Wharton
4. MIT
5. Kellogg
Chicago
7. Tuck
8. UC-Berkeley
9. Columbia
10. NYU

11. Ross
12. Duke
Darden
14. Cornell
Yale
16. UCLA
17. CMU
18. UNC
UT-Austin
20. Emory

21. USC
22. OSU
Purdue
24. Indiana
25. Gerogetown
GIT
Maryland
Minnesota

[aaronmin]

ㄜ...你看到的好像是我po的.....

昨天逛書店順手買了一本，台灣可能提早偷跑個幾天開賣吧，美國當地好像3/30才會公佈。
因為BW有人問所以我就順手po了一下，沒想到被貼回來傷咖，哈。

我把完整的1~50貼上來讓大家先睹為快囉。

US News MBA Ranking (2008 Edition)

1. HBS
2. Stanford
3. Wharton
4. MIT
5. Kellogg
Chicago
7. Tuck
8. UC-Berkeley
9. Columbia
10. NYU

11. Ross
12. Duke
Darden
14. Cornell
Yale
16. UCLA
17. CMU
18. UNC
UT-Austin
20. Emory

21. USC
22. OSU
Purdue
24. Indiana
25. Gerogetown
GIT
Maryland
Minnesota
29. Michigan State
Texas A&M
U of Washington
Wisconsin
Washington U in SL

34. Penn State
Vanderbilt
36. Rochester
37. Florida
UIUC
39. Boston C
Notre Dame

41. ASU
Babson
Boston U
BYU
45. Tulane
46. UC-Davis
U of Georgia
48. Rice
49. Wake Forest
50. U of Iowa

[Charleneshen]

感謝你，aaronmin。

看起來前兩組的學校變動還挺大的呢，M7還是很酷的在前面排排站，不過MIT往上擠了兩下，Cornell and Yale也虎視眈眈的在往上爬，UCLA往下掉的幅度讓我有點小吃驚，有人有興趣出來分析分析嗎？

[ccuturandot]

感謝你，aaronmin。

看起來前兩組的學校變動還挺大的呢，M7還是很酷的在前面排排站，不過MIT往上擠了兩下，Cornell and Yale也虎視眈眈的在往上爬，UCLA往下掉的幅度讓我有點小吃驚，有人有興趣出來分析分析嗎？

我想有可能是因為class 2006的畢業生 IB 跟 Consulting 找得超好
聽說是歷年來最好的(聽CMC說的)

[TooLegit2Quit]

Yeah... Anderson's drop was totally unexpected... But we have to remember that ranking is a zero-sum game. For someone to move up, others have to come down... Unfortunately, the school that came down is the one I am attending... Before I can tell people that I go to a top 10 school, now I can barely claim that I go to a top 15 school =(

[MBABoy]

Based on the number of Taiwaneses get admitted this year, it is obvious why UCLA drops so drastically this year. I have the feeling that the school may tend to become like USC. I still can't believe this number, 17. No matter how diversified these TW students are or UCLA may just wants to give out more offers to get more TW students, the quality of Class of 2009 may get hurt since there will be too many students coming from similar or even exactly the same culture and/or industry.

This is also a bad news for Class of 2009. Think about the internship next year. There will be too many students from the same school with similar backgrounds looking for same jobs! Let me cut the crap. Most TW MBAs still look for Management Consulting and Investment Banking when they start internship hunting, regardless what kind of BS they say in their essays or what they tell their friends even at school. Judging from the economy situation so far and the expectation for 2008, I just want to say, take care, class of 2009. You will have to compete with more people with similar backgrounds for fewer jobs.

[MBABoy]

感謝你，aaronmin。

看起來前兩組的學校變動還挺大的呢，M7還是很酷的在前面排排站，不過MIT往上擠了兩下，Cornell and Yale也虎視眈眈的在往上爬，UCLA往下掉的幅度讓我有點小吃驚，有人有興趣出來分析分析嗎？

As far as I remember, MIT is in No.4 in US News ranking for at least 3 or 4 years, almost always tight with Kellogg. I would rather say Kellogg drop to No. 5 than say MIT moves up since Top 3 is always H/W/S.

[MBABoy]

Yeah... Anderson's drop was totally unexpected... But we have to remember that ranking is a zero-sum game. For someone to move up, others have to come down... Unfortunately, the school that came down is the one I am attending... Before I can tell people that I go to a top 10 school, now I can barely claim that I go to a top 15 school =(

If the school you are attending is UCLA, I think that the common percetpion is that this is a good school and people generally know it. But, I don't think people will consider it Top 10. No offense to UCLA. Just want to point out the fact that, if one really cares about the "ranking" and wants to tell people what "level" of school he/she attends, well, better be precise.

[Yimmiwan]

個人感覺top schools的排名每年都差不多,前三名都固定,M7也只是交換位置,但對學校的影響真的很小.想去IB的人還是都會一窩瘋去Columbia & Chicago,唸行銷或市場學Kellogg仍是榜首,Tuck多少還是會因為海外名氣和地點影響一些人的選擇,MIT一直都是誘人的學校.就算是剩下的所謂top 15,排名的起伏雖然比較大,但也都是維持在同一個範圍內,參考MarkHsu的tier分配就知道了.

以前我自己也會蠻注重排名,但真正開始去了解學校和MBA之後也發現學校和學生的fit真的很重要,只要排名還夠高,第9名或第13名真的沒有什麼差別,重點還是去唸這學校可以給我什麼,是不是我想要的,還有對我以後出路的幫助.

[simonheart]

個人感覺top schools的排名每年都差不多,前三名都固定,M7也只是交換位置,但對學校的影響真的很小.想去IB的人還是都會一窩瘋去Columbia & Chicago,唸行銷或市場學Kellogg仍是榜首,Tuck多少還是會因為海外名氣和地點影響一些人的選擇,MIT一直都是誘人的學校.就算是剩下的所謂top 15,排名的起伏雖然比較大,但也都是維持在同一個範圍內,參考MarkHsu的tier分配就知道了.

以前我自己也會蠻注重排名,但真正開始去了解學校和MBA之後也發現學校和學生的fit真的很重要,只要排名還夠高,第9名或第13名真的沒有什麼差別

,重點還是去唸這學校可以給我什麼,是不是我想要的,還有對我以後出路的幫助.

嗯 有道理

[william700314]

I gotta say, there would be surely not so many Taiwanese students in class 2009 as some might expect. In fact, I've known that many students are admitted but will not choose this option. Remember what those current students have siad "We've seen such kind of situation before. Lots of Taiwanese students are admitted, but only part of them choose this program." Accordingly, I would not that fast to reach the conclusion that there will be more than one dozen Taiwanese students studying in this program. In fact, some candidates who have rejected this offer are still on the mailing list.

[modern]

本篇文章純屬個人意見
歡迎轉貼，但請註明出處
原文刊登在小弟我的blog:
http://www.wretch.cc/blog/moderne2&article_id=15239214


很多人愛看榜單，今天熱騰騰的新榜單又出爐，剛好又是我每年罵，逢年必罵的蠢蛋US news榜單。
太多人愛看榜，也很多人問我如何分析榜，今天我就好好分析給大家聽。

不知道回過幾次US news的business school榜是個爛榜單 （US news的其他榜我不至可否，有些還有點用）

最不專業
最不切合現實
最不reasonable

但......就還是有很多人愛看@@

我也得很難過的跟大家說，這邊大中華圈子很多念b school ，看榜單選校的，你們都還不適合念MBA。因為你們可能連最基本的求知精神+分析能力都欠缺。這樣的學生，很容易在MBA過程中走入迷惘最後不知道想幹啥。Why? 因為你們不知道榜單怎出來的，不知道排名怎麼排的 ，看著數字卻不去研究背後的道理，只用那數字來作為判斷基準。那這算什麼MBA候選生?

我就再一次分析 ，為什麼我老說US news
不要看 不要看 不要看 求求你們別再看這榜單 的理由吧

因為這份榜單簡直就是白癡benchmark與混蛋邏輯構成的
US news那群對B school完全外行人搞出的榜單根本不值得大家這麼重視 ， K? 你們該放心思的是很多其他的東西
太多太多了

請看以下:

Business Methodology

All 406 master's programs in business accredited by AACSB International were surveyed (382 responded, of which 113 provided the data needed to calculate rankings based on a weighted average of the quality indicators described below). All 406 schools appear in the directory.

113家"學校"的回應決定此榜單

Quality Assessment (weighted by .40)

Peer Assessment Score (.25)
In the fall of 2006, business school deans and directors of accredited master's programs in business were asked to rate programs on a scale from "marginal" (1) to "outstanding" (5).

很好 太好了 院長跟program director 的Peer evaluation是最大決定因素之一? 太可笑了吧XD 如果要學生evaluate都還合理 因為學生是服務的使用者 消費者 BUT!!!!
怎會有叫競爭對手之間互相Evaluate的道理呢 又 評價是怎評的 ? 依照academic? 依照什麼呢?

Those individuals who did not know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know." A school's score is the average of all the respondents who rated it. Responses of "don't know" counted neither for nor against a school. About 51 percent of those surveyed responded.

Recruiter Assessment Score (.15)
In the fall of 2006, corporate recruiters and company contacts who hire from previously ranked programs were asked to rate programs on a scale from "marginal" (1) to "outstanding" (5). Those individuals who did not know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know." A school's score is the average of all the respondents who rated it. Responses of "don't know" counted neither for nor against a school. About 21 percent of those surveyed responded.


只有21%的HR們回應問卷 + 不知道總共發出幾份給HR(上頭沒說，請有整本的人看看你們的正本是否有說明)
你們覺得這個benchmark可信度夠嗎？ 21%的回應的recruitors可以代表100% recruitors的意見嗎?

Placement Success (weighted by .35)

Mean Starting Salary and Bonus (.14)
The average starting salary and bonus of 2006 graduates of a full-time master's program in business. Salary figures are based on the number of graduates that reported data. The mean signing bonus is weighted by the proportion of those graduates that reported a bonus, since not everyone who reported a base salary figure reported a signing bonus.
Employment Rates for Full-time Master's Program in Business

這個沒話說，我認同這部份的重要性

Graduates
The employment rate for 2006 graduates of a full-time master's program in business. Those not seeking jobs or for whom no job-seeking information is available are excluded. If the proportions of graduates for whom no job-seeking information is available and who are not seeking jobs are high, then the information is not used in calculating the rankings. Employment rates at graduation (.07) and three months after graduation (.14) are used in the ranking model.

這部份也沒話說 找到工作的比例確實是重要

Student Selectivity (weighted by .25)

Mean GMAT Scores (.1625)
The average Graduate Management Admission Test score of students entering the full-time program in fall 2006. Scores on the test range from 200 to 800.

你們覺得Gmat成績佔了16.25%合理嗎? GMAT衡量一個program的好壞合理嗎?
你們知不知道有多少學校就靠這件事兒
讓自己在US news排到30~50附近?
某校就是硬收了一堆AT高的小弟弟小妹妹們讓自己擠進前30(不好意思，我得保護一下同學所以不說明是哪間學校)，
我的意思只是，這個指標佔據的權重會不會太誇張了? 會不會變成manipulation的工具?

Mean Undergraduate GPA (.075)
The average undergraduate grade-point average of those students entering the full-time program in fall 2006.

MBA排名跟我undergra成績有個屁關係?
那這樣我念台灣大學 北京大學 清華大學的 豈不是鬱悶死
滿地強者 競爭到死了我怎拿分數？ 我怎拿？
我到XX家裡蹲大學院去豈不是隨便拿4.0跟喝水一樣 這樣有證明這個MBA program比較行嗎？ BS中的BS

Acceptance Rate (.0125)
The percent of applicants to the full-time program in fall 2006 who were accepted.

接受率跟課程好壞又有何關連？
西北是私立很多人念不起 Berkeley是公立比較多加州學生會去申請而造成接收率降低 所以Berkeley就比西北強 該排的比西北高嗎? 白痴 benchmark又一個 BS又一個


Overall Rank: Data were standardized about their means, and standardized scores were weighted, totaled, and rescaled so that the top school received 100; others received their percentage of the top score.
Specialty Rankings: These rankings are based solely on ratings by business school deans and directors of accredited master's programs from the list of schools surveyed. They were asked to nominate up to 10 programs for excellence in each of the areas listed. The schools receiving the most votes appear here.

看完這麼多，你們還覺得這榜單有意義?
天阿 ，各位 ， 你們是MBA .... 你們以後是要做顧問 、進IB的強者們。小弟我一介草民，笨個要死都可以想出那麼多反例來證明這份榜單之於 " MBA課程優秀與否" 這件事情的關連程度太低太低，
如果連這點小把戲都能把你們玩弄在指掌之間 ，我真的覺得我們都別混了，腦袋打開來，漿糊取出來，剪個紙黏成
MBA三個大字就好了。

--
以下附上Us news原始連結 http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/r ... _brief.php

[robbiechen]

Quote" 看榜單選校的，你們都還不適合念MBA "

Morden 講的太好了, 偶像, 讚一個~

[TooLegit2Quit]

Haha, well said, Modern =) Looking forward to meet you this fall.

Competition is a part of the human nature and ranking is us trying to quantify the result of that competition... The ranking is somewhat entertaining though, wouldn't you agree?

[Alstonyeh]

Maybe not many people care about U of Notre Dame, but I still need to explain why its ranking drops so much.
It's an obligation of a ND student.

Quote from our Deam of B school:
we had a data submission error due to misinterpretation of the guidelines.As a result of this error, our career services performance was understated. Accurately reported, the placement rate three months after graduation would be 96% rather than 79.6%. The employment rate at graduation would be 76.9% rather than 63.8%. The correct percentages would have ranked us at 7th and 30th respectively on these two dimensions among business schools surveyed. For charts comparing our performance during the past two rankings, visit:
http://nd.edu/~mba/usnewsranking/

We can correct the number, but not the ranking.
That's why we drop to 39th.