尋找拼Top 20 2nd Round申請的戰友

[zacchen]

Without getting into the details too much:

(1) US/Canadian undergrad
Benefits:
--undergrad grades are more meaningful
--schools are easily recognizable
Cons:
--A GMAT will not compensate for an undistinguished academic record or academic institution.
--So even if you score a 750 but you went to a 2nd tier state school, you will have a hard time getting into a top school.
(2) Taiwan undergrad
Pros/Cons:
--undergrad grades are pretty much meaningless
--schools don't matter nearly as much, for example not much difference if you have a GMAT 700 from NTU, NCCU or FJU, whereas in the U.S., this would make a bigger difference.
--GMAT is everything
--Flip side is that this would penalize the good students who can't score 700+

請問這位朋友,這句話的真實性如何呢?是從Admission那邊得到的消息嗎?
我從來沒聽過top 20的學校會這樣篩選學生, 這樣不是一竿子打翻一堆大學
也否認這些大學的努力嗎?
Ohio State在學術上的名氣有多差? Michigan State, Penn State, 甚至 Arizona State?還有一堆州立大學在某些領域上的表現並不會輸那些top 20的學校,甚至在國際上還想有一定的聲譽,誰說州立大學沒有出過諾貝爾獎得主?
Edward C. Prescott -ASU 2006 諾貝爾經濟獎
Harry M. Markowitz - CUNY 1990 經濟獎
Selman A. Waksman - Rutgers 1952 醫學獎
Robert F. Furchgott -SUNY 1998醫學獎
Thomas R. Cech - U of Colorado 1989化學獎
這些沒有一個是Overall Top20的學校

還有一些家境比較不好的學生,唸不起Top20那些私立的學校
只能唸州立大學,那他們是不是天生比較衰,就算他們在求學過程中多麼努力,因為唸了州立大學,不管GMAT,GPA再怎麼好,Top MBA就是不會給他們機會

你說的那句話或許有你的道理,或是真的學校的admission staff說過那些話,我們不知道,但是這句話的爭議性真的太大了,如果你有有關這句話更詳細的資料或佐證,誠心的請你提供出來,讓唸州立大學的學生們現在就死心

[modern]

三件事情

1.我想有關tier的定義,可能是有稍許誤會.

Undergraduate的Tier跟MBA的Tier不一樣
Michigan State, Penn State, Arizona State都是挺好的州立大學,我不認為念這些學校會有多大影響.

但馬克指的應該是很多" undistinguished academic record or academic institution " 最好的例子就是如果該學校過去沒有幾個人成功進入Top MBA program,對於那些Top B schools來說要在考量收不收這個人就少了一些保障. Trust me,很多學校都有錄取偏好,而收最好的 Top undergra degree holder對學校來說有某一種保障作用.

2.以數據來說,我不太清楚其他學校的狀況.但以我目前身在UCLA來說,這邊學生的undergraduate degree的確是滿滿的公私立名校

人數排下來前三名是我們MBA大學時帶最多是念UCLA,UC Berkeley,Stanford, 佔據Top3
然後是西北,U penn,康乃爾,耶魯,密西根.

個別學校在學術上的成就與MBA admission officer的考量其實差異很大. 因為Admission Officer考慮的是,我這家MBA百貨公司,把xxx這個商品重新改一改鍍一鍍之後,一年後上架能吸引哪些顧客(公司)來買. 公司要能幫他們幹事兒賺錢的人,學術成就並非公司的主要考量點.

3. Mark是代辦公司的老闆,他是以他自己代辦的經驗在說話. 不需要去提出任何佐證. 講難聽點,每個admission director都是滿嘴屁話,什麼" we want diversified student background" 什麼 " all majors are welcomed" 都是Fxxx'n BS. 實際情況是,每個學校都有自己偏好,而Top schools也有不分學校的收生共通偏好.

老實說,也許Mark這人說話語氣有時候太武斷,或是太容易傷到人,但就事論事,他說的話的可信度很高. 代辦多年累積的數據,不需要說謊.
美國人這套Top MBA收生邏輯就是嘴巴上說一套,實際上另一套. For them, it's all about business.

[agk99]

我不是來打圓場的
但我至少認同MARK的一句話
Dont think you are the exceptional.

州立大學的教授當然可以拿諾貝爾獎(別忘了MIT, 哈佛, 芝加哥又拿了多少)
州立大學的畢業生當然有機會進頂級MBA (哈佛直升哈佛、U Penn 直升U Penn是不是更多)

我們甚至可以引申推論
top 10以外的學校也進得了一流IB MC
甚至是
不用出國也可以說的一嘴好英文　.....

只是遺憾的是
我們多數時間都是平凡的
不干心的人也沒關係
你就努力做一個不平凡的人吧

[modern]

寫到這兒忽然想到還是要補充一點

那就是

管你/妳念的是哪個Tier的大學

只要有心,你就該去拼,就該去試,正路不通還可以找歪路

你是2nd,3rd, or no name的大學畢業生, 怎辦? 天塌下來了? 念不成MBA了? 要去自殺撞牆嗎?

No way! 有好多路可走阿
1.
事業多拼幾年,找個好公司待到中階主管, 可以去念Chicago EMBA,清華-INSEAD EMBA,
對Finance有興趣,可以去念AGK現在那個NYU-UST的環球金融碩士.訓練絕對夠.

2.資本夠時間也夠的
找機會拿個大名校碩士,可以加點分 (但我個人不建議啦,為了這點分數花掉的時間以及金錢成本過高,寧可去拼工作拼到自己進個大MNC 有個 solid working exp多年還比較實際)

3.
等不及的 想拼的 我算給你看
哈佛, Wharton這些學校 一年就概略算成收800人好了
國際學生25%的話還有600
600個中就算500個來自所謂的Top tier 名校under的好了
so?

100個機會阿! 一間學校就有一百個
那些是不是機會 ? 都是, 看你用什麼方法擠上就是了.

我寫這篇只是要大家看清事實,而不是要discourage any one of you. 有夢最美 後面就不要希望相隨了 有夢...快去追啦!

[wwwwoooo]

Hi everyone,
It's about the time for applicants to receive interview invitation.
If you do receive one, please do not get discouraged by this post.
Chance is always there. One of my closest relative received the very top top school admission, and he is not from top 20 under.
I'm also applicant this year, and one of these coming from 2nd tier school.
I'm not giving up yet, so do you?

Modern is very well-said about the fact that there are still many ways to make it.
It belongs to you to find out which path making it happen.
Good luck to all of us. and never underestimate yourself.

[MarkHsu]

Tier 2 public school undergrad usually means going to a tier 2 state school in your state.

the #1 public school in your state is usually fine. Obvious exceptions are large states where there are multiple top schools.

For a better discussion on this, you should go to business week's forum.

Just ask Modern how many Cal State undergrad students he has met at UCLA vs UC undergrads.

In California, there are 9 UC campuses, 8 undergrad (excluding UC Merced since there are no graduates yet), and 23 Cal States.

I am not saying it's impossible, but the bar is higher if you have taken a "wrong turn" in life.

[maryfriend]

Without getting into the details too much:

(2) Taiwan undergrad
Pros/Cons:
--undergrad grades are pretty much meaningless
--schools don't matter nearly as much, for example not much difference if you have a GMAT 700 from NTU, NCCU or FJU, whereas in the U.S., this would make a bigger difference.
--GMAT is everything
--Flip side is that this would penalize the good students who can't score 700+

有傷咖的學長姐可以幫忙解釋這句話的涵義嗎? 不太瞭解difference從哪來的, 先說聲謝謝唷 ^^

[sampraschumacher]

看到了很多類似的討論

在這個等候結果的結骨眼上

我不免也會有些徬徨

但我依然有一些發自內心的聲音

那就是"人生很少例外"但永遠要當自己是個例外

如果你自己都不相信你自己是個例外

你如何說服學校相信你是一個好賭注

我自己組了一個"儲備人才"的領導團隊 成員散佈在許多行業

我們其實背景很好 高位階的長輩也不少

但是我們拒絕大規模地接受所謂的"制式栽培"

是啊 退伍後先進外商 一口IB語言 三五年後申請名校MBA

Career goal最好接家族企業(不論中型或大型) 再不然也要走投銀或管顧

這樣最容易錄取了

問題是 那真的是你嗎

如果你認為現在的企業經營模式還可以再改革 如果你不能滿意社會的現況

接受完這樣的栽培 你還會是改革者嗎 還是只是另一個"長輩"

反正很快就知道結果了

說不定我就是那個例外

擁有優勢工作經驗加上精雕細琢eesay再加上高GMAT

搞不好還是例外地沒有得到好結果

那我一定可以把他歸罪於太過特立獨行的Career goal

而拒絕承認那是不夠高的GPA和剛剛達標的托福所造成的

到時候一定跟大家報告結果跟心得

我永遠相信在人生的任何階段

我都是那個例外

因為我 不一樣

[vc1209]

A question for Mark:

I am not sure that you should group Canada with the US. All major Canadian universities are public, and the quality across the board is very consistent. Besides, if the adcom people are like the average Americans, it's highly likely that they have never heard of (or cared about) any Canadian universities.

To maryfriend:

I think it's because the adcom people don't know any of the universities in Taiwan. NTU, NCCU, or FJU ... all are just different names to them. (just like they don't know the Taipei Municipal First Girls' Senior High School)

[MarkHsu]

hi vc1209

I think you'd be surprised by the number of Canadians at top US universities.

Actually, I have worked w/ a lot of UBC grads in the past and they do very well in MBA apps. I feel that a UBC grad with avg marks and a GMAT 680 does much better than a NTU/NCCU grad with 720+ GMAT.

My feeling is that the top US schools are familiar with UBC, U Toronto, Waterloo and McGill.

I think the top Canadian schools are also fairly well-represented in Asia's banking/consulting circle, certainly more so than Taiwanese universities or 2nd tier undergrad institutions in the U.S.

[vc1209]

Well, Mark, your reply is bittersweet news for me, as I didn't graduate from UBC, but from the other one up in the mountain. But somehow I feel better after reading your answer. Thanks!

[pechiko]

Thanks for the advice above. Can you please give me some suggestion on my question below?

My fiance is already a PhD student (in science tho) at the school I am going to apply to, would it be any help if I disclose this information to the admission committee?

[lisayang83]

Hello 大家

我也想申請 round 2
不過 我選的學校 大部分 都是 mid decembter to late dec. due, 我現在 一個字 都還沒開始寫 強烈懷疑我會來不及><
我GMAT 750 托福這周考 也是台大的..GPA 不高 做市場研究2.5年
我目標 放在 前30, safety 大概會放在ranking低一點的學校

如果我可以順利上 前30名 我就安心了

大家一起加油為essays and 考試加油吧!!